Joe Martone Meets Rene Hebert, Mr. International Male Leather 2025
Joe Martone, one of our amazing hosts at Bear World TV, interviewed Rene Hebert, we previewed it on Bear World TV – We didn’t want you to miss anything so here is the full transcription. Enjoy.
Joe Martone: Welcome to “What do you know, with Joe.” Today, we have a guest I’ve wanted us to get to know, Rene Hebert. He is unofficially known as “Mister IML,” “Mister Palm Springs Leather,” and he just passed down his feeder title, “Mister Offramp Leather.”
Rene Hebert: Yes, I officially have a child.
Joe Martone: Congratulations, you’re a parent again. You have a history of doing pageants, so I assume you have many children in that sense.
Rene Hebert: And grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. I have a very developed “Title family tree.”
Joe Martone: Clearly, you’re very fertile. And I’m sure many people will be happy to know that. Some of these questions might feel familiar, but I’m going to try and keep it fresh. Let’s start with a little about yourself. If I remember correctly, you’re from Palm Springs by way of Canada, right?
Rene Hebert: That’s correct, yeah. I grew up moving pretty regularly. In 2017, I moved from Alberta to California. I’m a big nerd; I enjoy trading card games and video games. I’m a musical theater nerd. I developed a lot of interests that didn’t require a lot of friends since I never knew if I’d get to keep them after I moved.
Joe Martone: Oh, were you a military kid or something?
Rene Hebert: No, my dad worked for the Canadian National Railway, and whenever he was transferred, we would move.
Joe Martone: So, you moved to Southern California in 2017. Did that coincide with you getting into the leather community, or had leather been an interest before?
Rene Hebert: Leather was already there. I first stepped into a leather environment when I was 22. It wasn’t so much a leather bar as it was a bar that leather guys sometimes went to. I knew I had non-vanilla interests before that, and I connected with someone on Recon, which is a website for leather BDSM—a kink version of Manhunt, if you remember that. After getting to know him, he found out I’d never been to a leather bar, so he said, “Let’s go.” So we did, and I was 22.
Joe Martone: That’s a great time to get started and a really good introduction to the community.
Rene Hebert: I was very lucky to have met good-quality people who could pass on information and guide me.
Joe Martone: That’s unique to the leather community; I feel like most of it is passed down through the direct tradition of our elders. They have to document and record, and so many institutions are focused on preserving that history because it’s not passed down in a traditional sense.
Rene Hebert: I wouldn’t say it’s universal by any means, but a lot of the leather community emphasizes the passing down of history. That’s one of the things I think differentiates the leather community from someone who is just kinky or into a fetish. The mentality around leather is the attachment to the gear itself—the sentimentality and the history. It’s not uncommon for a lot of that leather gear, like boots, harnesses, and vests, to be passed on. It’s a very tangible representation of that history.
Joe Martone: That’s a wonderful way to look at it because we forget that for a lot of people, leather is an accessory or a statement, which it can be. But it’s also an expression of culture and identity.
Rene Hebert: Don’t get me wrong, the guys who don’t get the history side of it and just like feeling good and sexy in a harness when they go dancing—that is equally as valid. Frankly, there are some guys that grump about that, but as far as I’m concerned, it’s equally valid. Not everyone tunes into that element, but it is a very real element of the community.
Joe Martone: It’s a beautiful element. I’m particularly fond of it. I’ve especially seen those Onyx ceremonies, and they’re very special and touching for those who connect to the culture. Speaking of culture, you’ve been very good about educating people about it. You have a TikTok where you talk about your passions, including leather and, very importantly, bootblacking.
Rene Hebert: I’ve been a bootblack since November 2010. Originally, it was a way to raise money for travel and charity, but I quickly fell in love with it. To loop back to leather being a tangible history, bootblacks are the caretakers of the gear. They make sure we all look and feel good in our gear and that it’s conditioned, polished, and well-cared for. So, to an extent, bootblacks are physical curators of leather history.
Joe Martone: So it gives you a much deeper appreciation for the gear and its history.
Rene Hebert: Absolutely. And not just the gear, but the stories. Usually, someone isn’t just sitting in silence while they get their boots done. The number of stories I’ve heard about shenanigans in the back of leather bars or personal histories—it’s very, very cool. Go to any bootblack and ask them, “What’s your favorite story you’ve heard from the chair?” You’re going to get some really good ones.
Joe Martone: Oh, okay, I’m going to remember that next time I’m at the Eagle or Precinct.
Rene Hebert: Most bootblacks have some really cool stories.
Using Social Media to Build Community
Joe Martone: You’ve been able to communicate that love online on TikTok and have grown a wonderful fanbase. What’s that been like? I feel like you’ve introduced a lot of people to leather and bootblacking.
Rene Hebert: That wasn’t my mission. I was just like, “Hey, this TikTok thing is kind of neat. I’m just going to post myself doing boots to funky music and see what happens.” Then I quickly got a bunch of comments like, “What’s bootblacking?” I was like, “Well, okay, let’s respond to this,” and it just kept going. Now there’s a bootblacking Discord that’s pretty active, and every now and then I’ll poke my head in to answer a question or give feedback. The number of times I’ve heard, “Oh my God, you’re the reason I started bootblacking,” is just amazing.
Joe Martone: That’s really cool and so sweet.
Rene Hebert: It is. I wasn’t expecting it, and I feel incredibly blessed to be part of so many bootblacks’ experiences, even just getting started or learning more.
Joe Martone: Look at you making legacies left and right.
Rene Hebert: Yeah, I’m very honored to be a part of that.
Joe Martone: Speaking of legacies, your latest one is that you’re the latest Mr. International Male Leather. I believe you’re the 47th.
Rene Hebert: Yes, the 45th International Mr. Leather, technically. They skipped two years because of COVID, but they kept the numbers going.
Joe Martone: Okay, so it’s a way of marking time.
Rene Hebert: The actual title is International Mr. Leather 2025, but I’m IML number 47.
Joe Martone: So you’re 25 and 47. You’re part of many legacies with that. Your feeder title was from Offramp Leather, then you won Palm Springs Leather, and you cleaned house with that, even though you had a lot of competition.
Rene Hebert: We had four people competing, yes. I don’t know how everyone placed, but I do know that apparently it was a pretty tight competition, and at any point, anyone could elevate. So yeah, Mr. Palm Springs last year was pretty close.
Joe Martone: What was the preparation like?
Rene Hebert: Oh God, I have so many spreadsheets. Essentially, it came down to figuring out what I was being judged on and being intentional about what I was wearing for each section. I also did research on my judges. I feel like some people get this wrong—the reason you do research on your judges is not to tailor your answer to what they want to hear. It’s to give you information about what they’re actually asking. I’m not giving you an answer you necessarily want to hear; I’m giving you the answer to the question you’re actually asking. You’re giving yourself context because you know where they’re coming from. One of the judges I had actually authored a book, which I bought and read, and as a result, the kind of vague question he asked during the interview, I knew exactly what he was asking about and could answer that.
There’s a strategy to it, but no guaranteed way to win. There are ways to remove stress. I did about three mock interviews to get the wheels going on how to answer questions succinctly and quickly. I practiced my speech so many times that I knew exactly when to start waving when I got on stage and where to stand. There’s a lot of choreography that goes into delivering a speech, so I planned every single aspect of it.
Advocating for Nuance and Community
Joe Martone: I’m very impressed, and it showed. I think your confidence showed the most in your speech. You spoke passionately about the intersection of love for your community and advocacy at a crucial time.
Rene Hebert: And it continues to be what I talk about because it’s what I’m passionate about. I genuinely feel the only way we’re going to survive and thrive is to ensure we have a community that embraces everyone in it. That means we need to take the time to listen to each other. I think a lot of online and social media interactions impede that because you can’t discern tone. It’s easy to jump to one extreme or another. Also, social media is catered toward quick responses, so nuanced dialogue doesn’t usually happen. I feel like that has carried over to in-person interactions, and we’re doing ourselves a disservice.
Joe Martone: That’s absolutely real. There’s so much to be said for having those real, nuanced dialogues, especially in real life.
Rene Hebert: Oh, completely. I understand the need to try to cut everything up into easy-to-digest chunks. But when you look at stuff like representation, inclusivity, and diversity—when you’re discussing race and gender—the amount of overlap between all of that is massive. A lot of the discourse tries to create strict definitions that don’t allow for that overlap and nuance. I feel like those conversations need to be a little bit more subtle, if that makes sense.
Joe Martone: Oh, absolutely. There has to be room for it to live in, not even necessarily the gray, but to understand that not everything has a strict one-for-one answer.
Rene Hebert: Yeah, context matters with a lot of this stuff, and a lot of the time, the context goes out the window, especially on social media.
Joe Martone: And that’s just talking about RuPaul’s Drag Race or something.
Rene Hebert: Yeah. I recently made a meme-ish post on TikTok where I basically alluded to Fluevog boots being amazing and how bootblacks love them. I got a few comments that were like, “Well, Corcorans are better.” That wasn’t the point. Someone else said, “What about West Coast boots?” I’m like, “Okay, let’s discuss the nuance of different boot brands within a five-second meme audio on TikTok. Sure.”
Joe Martone: I can’t tell you how much that drives me crazy. It’s like the meme where you post, “I love waffles,” and someone says, “Yeah, but what about toast?” It’s like, “I’m not talking about toast.” Social media is weird, but you’ve wielded it well and have had quite the journey. You’re a few months into your IML reign at this point.
Rene Hebert: I am 25% through my year. That’s crazy. I’m three months in.
Joe Martone: What has that quarter been like? I know there’s been a lot of travel.
Rene Hebert: It’s funny because a few days ago, I thought, “Well, it’s already been three months, and I’ve barely done anything.” Then I sat down and wrote down everything I did and was like, “Oh shit.” I’ve taken part in six or seven events, posted 60 short-form videos on TikTok, most of them educational, and traveled to three cities and three out-of-town events. I’ve also continued raising money for the Trans Health and Wellness Center here in town. It’s gone by quickly, and it’s only going to get quicker because I have a busier time coming up.
Joe Martone: Oh yeah, you’ve got your whole year planned out.
Rene Hebert: It has not allowed me a lot of time to slow down and really digest. It’s been very “go, go, go.” It’s also been really cool. When I went to Portland, I got to bootblack alongside someone who was working their first bar night, which was fantastic. And San Francisco Pride was absolutely amazing. I’ll be digesting this title year for probably about a decade.
Advice for Bar Managers and Aspiring Leather Enthusiasts
Joe Martone: Fun thought experiment: What would you tell a bar or a bar manager who hasn’t necessarily run a leather night? What should they expect, and what would you recommend?
Rene Hebert: Advertise well in advance and recognize that this is a pretty substantial chunk of the community they may not have tapped into before. From a business perspective, there’s a lot of financial potential there. Second, do not judge the turnout on the first event because if you really want attendance, you need to do it a few times. I would also strongly recommend clear communication with the event organizers about what you are and are not comfortable with. It’s one thing to say, “Oh yeah, I want a leather night. Do what you want,” but then freak out when the flogging demos start.
So, be very clear about what a leather night at your bar looks like. It could be just a social night with drink specials for those wearing a harness or vest, or it could mean going full-hog with demos and educational stuff. There’s a lot of nuance in what a leather night could mean depending on the venue. The biggest thing for me would be to communicate with the event organizer. What do they expect? Does it meet your requirements as a venue? Because as much as I would love to see every bar do leather nights, it really doesn’t make sense for some. You’re not going to attract the leather guys at a top-40 dance bar. If you’re interested in doing a leather night, recognize that you may not have the venue for it, but communicate with your local leather clubs to find out what they would need. It may just be, “Hey, we want a dance party with harnesses and vests.” That’s easy.
Joe Martone: Yes, we do. They are a statement for good reason. They look good. And if you could offer any advice to anyone looking to get into the leather scene, where would you recommend they start?
Rene Hebert: Find out if there are any local leather clubs or groups. There are a lot of them all over the place. I’m willing to bet there’s one within a couple of hours of you. Even if you’re not in a big city, the Midwest has a bunch of leather clubs, and down in Florida, there are clubs and stuff all over the place. Aside from that, there is a website called FetLife, which is a kinky BDSM social media platform. There are leather groups on Facebook and leather and BDSM education on TikTok. Be careful with that one, as anyone can upload videos. Use social media, as many of these groups have a presence at this point. That’s where I would start. See if you can find a leather group to interact with, just in general. Recognize you may have to travel for events or meetups, but that’s probably where I would start from square one.
Joe Martone: But I assume it’s been a deeply worthwhile experience.
Rene Hebert: Completely. And it’s also a lot more varied and diverse than you would expect. The leather community has this reputation of being stodgy, old leather guys stuck in their ways who don’t care about the new guys. I recognize the stigma of getting involved with the leather community and it being weird or intimidating. It is a lot more varied than you would expect. There are a lot of young leather folk, not just leather guys. There are leather women, trans folk, non-binary people—it is a very varied community. Although it may not be local, you will find your people; you just might need to dig a little bit.
Joe Martone: The future looks bright, though.
Rene Hebert: I think so.
Joe Martone: Well, Rene, thank you for that. Always appreciate it. Now is the time to plug any of your socials.
Rene Hebert: I have a Facebook page, IML 2025. I also have my TikTok platform, which is @Buckharder, all one word, B-U-C-K-H-A-R-D-E-R. Yes, it’s a pun name. I made it when I thought I was going to do porn. Those would be the main ones I want to plug.
Joe Martone: Perfect. Thank you so much. I hope to see you again soon, especially since you’re going to be in LA fairly soon.
Rene Hebert: I will. On the last weekend of the month, I’m going to Encuerado Weekend in LA, a very cool Latinx POC leather event. I’m very excited. I look forward to seeing you there.
